This is to Mr Walton Pantland
Make Israel history
Israel's victory in the Six Day War is the single biggest cause of conflict in the world today.
It's the fortieth anniversary of the Six Day War, and the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This war, probably more than any conflict, has poisoned world politics ever since. I would argue that it's probably the single biggest cause of conflict in the world today, which is why I blog about it so much.
Here is an Amnesty International report about the devastating effects of 40 years of occupation.
I am as disturbed by the rise of militant Islam as anyone, but I think that it is the injustice done in Palestine that is the cause, and only creating a just solution will take away the Islamic fundamentalists reasons for existing. We are facing a so-called 'clash of civilisations', between Islamic and Western values.
But its Western hypocrisy that Muslims are rejecting, and the Israeli occupation - and US support for it - is what has made Islam the enemy of the West.
I had a scrap on the Zionist blog today. The readers of the blog find it impossible to concede that I can criticise Israel without being an anti-Semite. "This Palestinin crap is just another stick to beat Jews with", as Gary puts it.
They paint me as a rabid anti-Semite, who won't rest until every Jewish child is murdered. You just can't debate with Zionists, because when you write "Israeli troops target Palestinian civilians", they read "kill the Jew". There's just a total shut down, and inability to engage. Any media report about Israeli atrocities is down to media anti-Semitism, Palestinian lies, or both.
Most of the comments on the blog are written by hysterical ninnies, who claim that any attempt to establish a single, secular state will result in 'a second holocaust', that the Palestinians are this minute sharpening their knives for Jewish throats.
One of them claims that the occupied territories are being ruled by Israel through a UN mandate! And this is some one who wants me to 'read more on the topic' before I deign to have a say.
What other fantasies are lurking in the minds of the Zionists?
Well, a popular one is likening Palestinian fighters to the Nazis. One comment mentioned Arab collaboration with the Nazis before World War Two.
Yes, that's true, and it's a particularly unedifying bit of history. But guess what? The Zionists collaborated with the Nazis too!
There was even a medal struck to commemorate this:
The hypocrisy of it is nauseating too. The blog post was condemning COSATU's call for a boycott of Israel. But Israel has called for a world wide boycott of the elected leadership of the Palestinian territories, just because they don't like the outcome of the election.
I don't like the outcome either, but you can't claim to be a democrat and then refuse to accept the results of a democratic election.
When I likened Israel to apartheid South Africa - and their hysteria to Swart Gevaar - they assumed I was comparing the ANC to Hamas.
Do I need to spell it out? Criticism of Israel does not equal support for Islamists.
It's at times like this that anti-Zionist Jewish voices are important, whether they are Marxists like Yossi Schwartz, anarchists against the wall, religious groups or just Jews sans frontieres.
here is my reply :
It is really funny how you attack anyone that is pro Israel, I did not know what you meant on my blog about supernatural.
I love how everyone says occupation this and occupation that.
The palestinians only have a glimmer of a state because Israel is sympathetic to their needs.
Please remind me who was in control of the lands which were CAPTURED fair and square by Israel? West Bank - Jordan, Gaza - Egypt.
Let us say for arguement sake if Israel had not captured those territories do you for one minute think that Egypt or Jordan would allow a palestinian state?
By the way Jordan's King Hussein massacred "palestinian refugees" in the 80's, I think not. While Lebanon is doing the same thing the world turns a blind eye.
People like you Walton are fighting a battle you will eventually loose, because you live in a dream world.
That picture you have of Jews walking around with banners, they are shunned by most sects of judaism and comprise of close to 0.01% of worldwide Jews.
I might understand if you are playing devil's advocate but that can get you into a position that would cause people to think you are an anti-semite.
You say many things in your anti-Israel article that is like a chair with 3 legs very shaky stuff.
I would love to see your evidence that shows Israel targets palestinian civilians, that is quite a harsh assumption, Have you ever been to Israel? if not how can you actually think of giving an objective view? I could assume you are a scared white person who ran away from South Africa as you did not want to live under blacks, but that would be a horrible statement and wrong to give you the benefit of the doubt, is that not true?
I would love to entertain your debate about Israel. But if you do not have hard facts and just using hot air to make the Israelis look bad then I am sorry that is anti-semetic.
Do you realise that freedom of media is only allowed in one country of the middle east - Israel all other countries have full censorship and nothing is allowed to be published by foreign correspondents, especially Syria who incidentally gave a visa to a CNN correspondent the last time was such a long time ago I do not think they even try, and if you do get a visa then Assad's bodyguards are your escorts.
I am under the impression that Israel captured Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights fair and square so where is the occupation? It is Israel's property, and in my eyes up to the government and referendums to do with it as they please, is this not right?
The "palestinians" were promised by the arab nations just hold your horses and when we have deatroyed the jews you (palestinians) can have the whole of Israel/palestine. Now answer this question how the hell can the arabs promise them something like that? It is like a homeless person saying to his child don't worry I will get you a playstation 3, absurb. the problem is that the arab nations promised them something and the terrorists are trying to get what they were promised, only one problem they were never promised it by Israel.
It looks like you base all your things on assumptions and that is pretty dumb.
COSATU are bunch of stupid idiots and seeing as you are a trade unionist you fall into the same catergory. Unions always bugger the whole thing up. They forget that imports from Israel amount to about $230 million per annum and exports excluding diamond amount to $290 million per annum, I doubt the palestinians could cover the loss. They forget about the arms they get supplied from Israel, cellphone technology, P4 chips, Win XP, organic insecticides so on and so forth.
By boycotting Israel the times of Vasco da Gama and Captain Cook will be around the corner for South Africa, a good thing you left.
How the hell can you even try comparing Israel to Apartheid? they are 2 different situations, Arabs and women are in the government, Arabs, Jews, Christians are in the army. Israeli-Arabs have the right to vote. Women have the right to vote. 10% of Knesset seats are occupied by Arabs. palestinians are not Israeli citizens and fall under PA control, so to put the blame on Israel is wrong and by the majority of palestinians voting in a terrorist group to be their government, just shows where there loyalty is.
You are very foolish siding with a backstabbing bunch, Israel has bent over backwards for the palestinians and the thanks in return are suicide attacks, home made rockets, road side bombs and the list goes on and on.
Your perception of Zionists are people that want to kill innocent people which is wrong and hurtful, all Zionism is, is patriotism and the love of Zion/Jerusalem that we can one day wake up go to the western wall pray, walk around Jerusalem and not need to look behind our backs in case some idiot wants to kill us just because we are Jews and no other reason.
Those Anti-Zionists as you put it are sleeping with the enemy and if they think for one second that when Ahmadinejad says he wants to destroy Israel that they are safe they must think again, no one gets preferential treatment unless you are one of their kind, I am sure they would convert to Islam at the drop of a hat if it meant their freedom.
I think you need to take a trip to Israel to make sure you understand what you are talking about and then go to the civil war in Gaza and just see if you are giving everyone a fair view about the situation or just spreading gossip.
I must inform you that I do not like the name you gave your link as that is inciting hatred and if I was assuming like you do I would think you would like Israel to not exist, am I right?
Let me guess you are also probably someone who thinks Ahmadinejad wants nuclear power for peaceful means, even if he does what happens if he does not are you willing to put the lives of everyone in the world at risk ?
posted by Chops at
4:28 PM




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1 Comments:
A couple of points:
Yes, I have been to Israel, in fact I lived there for a year and speak Hebrew - though it's getting rusty. I arrived in Israel more or less a Zionist, but quickly changed my mind when I realised Israel was just like apartheid South Africa. Quite frankly, I am fairly confident that I know what I am talking about.
But go ahead and call me anti-semitic if that's the only way you can confront my arguments. That is a typical Zionist tactic: discredit your critics by calling them anti-semitic, debate semantics (is it really occupation?), or point to how bad other states in the Middle East are.
As for Israel targetting civilians, this is widely reported in media such as The Guardian and BBC, though I am sure you will just denounce these as pro-Palestinian anti-semites. I am sure you are aware that Israel has also murdered a number of peace activists, such as Rachel Corrie.
I didn't leave South Africa because I was 'scared of the blacks', in fact I joined the ANC in 1992 and I have been fighting for broad-based Black empowerment ever since.
You say:
"I am under the impression that Israel captured Jerusalem, West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights fair and square so where is the occupation? It is Israel's property, and in my eyes up to the government and referendums to do with it as they please, is this not right?"
Uh, no. I don't accept that conquest gives Israel a right to land in the Middle East, and neither does the UN, so saying Israel won the land 'fair and square' is pretty pointless. If I come and beat you up and take your house because I have a bigger gun than you, does it become my house because I won it 'fair and square'? If so, where do you live?
The fact that other states in the Middle East are as bad as Israel is not a justification of Israeli tyranny. Being an enemy of Israel doesn't make me an friend of Syria - I am an enemy of both, if you can understand the complexity of that nuance.
Quite frankly, I think we could do without Israeli arms, and Win XP.
The reason I compare Israel to apartheid has a lot to do with people like you - the kind of language you use is identical to that of pro-apartheid whites in the 1980s and early 1990s. You say "Israel has bent over backwards for the palestinians and the thanks in return are suicide attacks, home made rockets, road side bombs and the list goes on and on." That's exactly what white South Africans used to say about black people. They also used to point to the rest of Africa - the way you point to other Middle Eastern countries - as a reason for continuing apartheid.
And Its Almost Supernatural is another blog full of Zionist rubbish.
And by the way, if you are going to steal an entire post from my blog, please at least have the decency to link back to it.
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